New 22-Designs NTN Binding

I'm sized in between you guys in and just don't feel the bellows being an issue even at high alpine speeds. But in-area in the bumps it is handy to have a softer bellows. But that is another story.
As hop was saying that maybe the market window is so small that making a whole other boot stiffer to fit 6 tightwads is not feasible.
Just curious, but are you using the tx-pro for in and out skiing? I'm not sure I'm geared to use a stiffer boot, especially in the steeper chutes when you want to get on that front foot and not feel like having a frankenstein stance. I find quick feet essential and a stiffer bellows slows that IMO.

If that question's for me, I only really use the TX-pro for those trips where I'm bringing tech bindings and NTN setups, or just using tech bindings.  If I'm only using NTN which is most of the time I'm using TX-comps. 

FWIW I'm 5'10", 16x# and spend most of my time on 118, 134, or 136 waist skis in the 181-189cm range.  I like to go fast and jump off of stuff and all those things too.   

As for buckles, I agree that the top buckle is pretty much worthless as is the lowest buckle.  In order of importance the ankle buckle is #1, followed by power strap and then the bottom cuff buckle.  That's my foot, anyways. 

Edit: oh yeah, the elastic power strap that has been stock on the TX-pro/comp for the past few years is far superior to the booster-esque one that was on there before. At least I haven't broken the new one like I constantly did with the old one!

...I think the top buckle is superfluous on the Pro and Comp and a wider and nicer Booster strap would be nice, like the one that came on the last generation red T Race.

I was using these aftermarket straps on my 75mm TRace boots and 1st gen Crispi Evos 

Booster Straps

Many people disliked the 1st gen Crispi Evos, complaining that the bellows were too stiff, I picked mine up used. Maybe the prior owner softened them up for me, but I felt they were OK -- but then I tend to shop for skis that reviews pan as being too stiff. At 240+lbs I don't have any problems getting a ski or boot to flex.

Where were you guys last month..?  I just called Dave @ Marmot to order an  NTN / TX Pro / Cham 97 rig, but zip on all counts.  Now what?

The last generation of the 3 buckle red T Race came with a really nice strap made by Booster, it was even nicer than the ones sold by Booster.

I was using these aftermarket straps on my 75mm TRace boots and 1st gen Crispi Evos 

Booster Straps

Many people disliked the 1st gen Crispi Evos, complaining that the bellows were too stiff,  I picked mine up used.  Maybe the prior owner softened them up for me, but I felt they were OK -- but then I tend to shop for skis that reviews pan as being too stiff.  At 240+lbs I don't have any problems getting a ski or boot to flex.

Where were you guys last month..?  I just called Dave @ Marmot to order an  NTN / TX Pro / Cham 97 rig, but zip on all counts.  Now what?

NTN with Tx Pro or Comp and Cham 97 is a fantastic set up. I have Freedom/Comp/Cham 97 and love it. I wish I had got the HM version but doesn't matter that much.

I'm w/ Freedom/TX/Cham97HM this year, so far so good!  My TXs no longer have any cuff-locks, and w/ lighter Dynafit tour liners, and blue-springs at #1.  Good to know there are still many tele-skiers out there

Many people disliked the 1st gen Crispi Evos, complaining that the bellows were too stiff,  I picked mine up used.  Maybe the prior owner softened them up for me, but I felt they were OK -- but then I tend to shop for skis that reviews pan as being too stiff.  At 240+lbs I don't have any problems getting a ski or boot to flex.

I also picked up a pair used Orange Evos, and I really like them, but only for lift skiing. I weigh just under 150 lbs and they're not a problem to flex. I use Freerides with greens springs set at 2. Just drive the cuff, right? I have a pair of TXpros and TXs as well, with my main setup for BC being TX, Freedom with blues set to 1 and Blackdiamond Starlet girl skis. This setup is so light, and skis so well, I love it. Adjusting to the Evos, Freeride and Rossi S3s after spending so much time on my Starlets takes a few laps, but once dialed in it's amazing the power. As far as any of these boots being to soft, I haven't experienced that. I would like a boot softer than my TXs with slightly lower cuff.

Good to hear from you again Mike!

Hallelujah..Got my first chance to try a buddies Tele Tech setup and glory be to the tele Gods I have seen the light! Using my Tx-Pros they were just sweet! One can move feet like doing the Ali Shuffle, not as stable as the NTN's overall, but not as mechanical a turn either.
IMO enough support for all my needs at pretty high speeds, Moguls, easier to transition in the steeps and way easier in the powder, not the tip dive of NTN. Felt like I was skiing in my early 30's again.
The down side is that I was coming out of the Dynafit Tech Toe a couple times, once on a steep face it just released mid transition. And after incident I put them in lock mode and released out of both moving pretty fast in hard moguls. It may be due to the plastic shim that my friend had put on the blocks that secure the spring wire. He placed those on the blocks to prevent sinking flex of the front boot sole. Maybe I was getting some toe uplift when I planted my heel back down?? Either way I'm sold on the system!

Re. stiffness - the only place I don't like the softness of the TX-pro is the bellows.  Cuff and tongue-wise they're fine.  Where are other folks noticing the softness? 

Agreed. The softness in the tx pro is all in the bellows. Everything else about the boot is okay for me. I like stiff, active bellows.

For what I like, I personally wouldn't advise anyone to go NTN right now over what is offered in 75mm.  The small advantages of no duckbill and a slightly lighter boot haven't made me decide to take the Freedom and Tx Pros into the backcountry.  I prefer, for backcountry use, my Push boots and my O1 bindings.  I prefer for the resort my Custom boots and the O1.

Agree with the statements about 75mm vs NTN. I am gear whore and have Axls, TTS, NTN Freedom and a few AT/Dynafit set ups. The TTS and NTN Freedom are gathering dust because TTS (as it is currently sold) is too breakage-prone for me and I can't get past cartridges that bottom out; and NTN Freedoms and TX Pros are simply too neutral and not powerful enough for my tastes (I ski BD Pushes and Axls). AT setups are nice for long descents off big boys like Rainier but the fun factor is so much less than tele it always feels like I traded fun for utility when I ski AT. 

I really welcome 22Designs to NTN because they have a proven record of getting it right and they are just a cool company. This is going sound like an overstatement, but the future of tele rests in hands of what 22D, Scarpa and Rotte decide to do.  A true step-in NTN binding with adjustable pivot locations (which is what 22D's proto version has) would be a nice improvement over current NTN. And, the Hammerheel lifter blows the NTN/TTS and all other tele ones out of the water. 

I really would prefer improvement/innovation in the TTS offerings. B&D has a tele tech adapter in beta now that I have been testing that is an improvement over current TTS because the pivot is adjustable on the fly (has a shift plate below) and it uses Voile hardwire cables so you can remove them on on the ascent.

Although I still ski 75mm about 90% of the time that I am skiing, I urge all telemarkers to stop putting off buying new stuff since their wouldn't be any innovation if we don't put our money where are mouths are (which contradicts Dan's post above). The closing of Marmot is another huge hit to tele in WA  since they were one of the only remaining shops in the PNW willing to carry a decent selection of tele boots (even though it did not make economic sense anymore). 

Good thoughts, Doug.  Trying to prop up the shops, I ordered today Cham / Freedom / TX pro, as a resort rig,  pretty much knowing I'm still going to prefer 75mm.  But I do like to mix it up, like overbooting an Alpina Cross terrain at resort moguls, etc, so this should be fun.  And I'll be ready when TTS is right..  If 22D keeps the adjustable 'activity' and gets releasability in their NTN version, that would be pretty interesting - more stuff to buy later..

As noted earlier, I tried to get from Marmot, but no go.  Pro Guide and ProSki, no go (although ProSki suggested they might pickup more tele next season).  Alpine Experience in Olympia no help (quitting, too).  Portland area brick and mortar had nothing. Mountain Gear, Spokane had part of kit, but don't seem sharp on tele (imo).  Ended up buying ski from Evo, Seattle, shipped to TelemarkSki / Wilderness Sports, Colorado - independent brick and mortar - free shipping and no sales tax, where Scott and Chris will mount and provide Freedoms and TX pro then ship (free, and again no tax) to here in Wa.   It was the closest I could get to supporting core tele players..    btw, if you got a problem with the no tax thing, I can explain it if need be, otherwise, too bad.

The TTS and NTN Freedom are gathering dust because TTS (as it is currently sold) is too breakage-prone for me and I can't get past cartridges that bottom out;  

Doug or David, I can appreciate your insights, but to understand better what is the propensity for the TTS breakage. When I skied them a couple weeks ago I recognized the bottom out (putting the throws on) but never bottomed out the spring while skiing. Is it the springs are going to get blown?... because the rest (ie toe, heel throw and blocks) looks solid...to me.

Now, I also have never had an issue either with the 2nd gen NTN binding that was breaking off either that many were chatting about too. Knock on wood!

You are going to like those Chams David. I have the 107 HM and they are great and not to squirrelly on harder snow.

I really welcome 22Designs to NTN because they have a proven record of getting it right and they are just a cool company. This is going sound like an overstatement, but the future of tele rests in hands of what 22D, Scarpa and Rotte decide to do.  A true step-in NTN binding with adjustable pivot locations (which is what 22D's proto version has) would be a nice improvement over current NTN. And, the Hammerheel lifter blows the NTN/TTS and all other tele ones out of the water. 

I really would prefer improvement/innovation in the TTS offerings. B&D has a tele tech adapter in beta now that I have been testing that is an improvement over current TTS because the pivot is adjustable on the fly (has a shift plate below) and it uses Voile hardwire cables so you can remove them on on the ascent.

Although I still ski 75mm about 90% of the time that I am skiing, I urge all telemarkers to stop putting off buying new stuff since their wouldn't be any innovation if we don't put our money where are mouths are (which contradicts Dan's post above). The closing of Marmot is another huge hit to tele in WA  since they were one of the only remaining shops in the PNW willing to carry a decent selection of tele boots (even though it did not make economic sense anymore). 

I like these thoughts.  It's important to invest in tele in order to keep it alive.  I'm very glad 22 designs has stepped in to NTN and are developing a tech tele binding!  Here are some quotes from a backcountry mag interview that made me happy:

BCM: What’s the timeline for a TwentyTwo NTN binding becoming available?
CC: Fall 2015 is the plan. There’s another binding that we’re working on with a tech-fitting toe for a true Dynafit-style tour mode.

BCM: So do you think NTN systems and tech systems are the future of what people will be telemarking on?

CC: Yea. I think 75mm will be around for a long time. We plan on selling the Axl and Vice for a long time. They’re great bindings, but the NTN offers additional features that you really can’t get with a 75mm binding like step-in, like releasability and like a tech-fitting-style tour binding.

BCM: And having more options available to the NTN skier can’t hurt either.

CC: Yea. We want to have the best bindings for both systems, so that’s the direction we’re heading.

Here's a link to the interview. 

backcountrymagazine.com/gear/future-tele...gns-new-ntn-binding/

Ok, here is my 1st prototype, which flexed ok until broke Back to the drawing board...

Kenji…

That is a work of art.

Where are you getting your carbon fiber?

Another question.

Is the back piece always engaging the duckbutt or is that somehow moveable?

It seems like you would need to step out of the ski from tour mode and then engage the duckbutt and then the tech toe to get into ski mode. … am I right?

The holding part slides on the carbon plate, a tricky part has been on how to apply some tension to keep it engaged, and still easy to disengage. For now I'm using some heavy elastic loop for that (not shown) to avoid use of any steel springs.

I've got a few pieces of carbon plate samples online, of course it's impossible to know how stiff the plates need to be...until I try. So far just try&error...mostly errors ;D

The holding part slides on the carbon plate, a tricky part has been on how to apply some tension to keep it engaged, and still easy to disengage.  For now I'm using some heavy elastic loop for that (not shown) to avoid use of any steel springs.

Something like what 22 Designs is trying to do to engage and release the hook from the duckbutt would be good. In tour mode the 22 Designs hook, because of the step in feature, wouldn't allow for touring though.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I'm not convinced the Dynafit toe piece is the answer. I really like the lateral stability of the flex plate of the Freedom while cruising around in tour mode, espceially for side hilling. However if they do come out with this type of binding that uses the duckbutt I'm sure I'd buy 2. :

Ok, here is my 1st prototype, which flexed ok until broke    Back to the drawing board...

Cool concept. I'd try a piece of spring steel for the lower plate instead of carbon fiber or maybe titanium.

I'd try a piece of spring steel for the lower plate instead of carbon fiber or maybe titanium.

My thoughts exactly!

Can't machine those hard metals myself, but could use the online machine shops!

fyi for southenders, Sturtevants, across the street from REI, fitted and baked my new TX Pro's just fine. Bought at Telemarkski.com, I brought them to Alex there in Tacoma and he spent the time it took. $35. Pffftt..

Can't machine those hard metals myself, but could use the online machine shops!

You could buy thin spring steel sheets and then cut them with a rented plasma cutter for $150/week

Any progress Kenji? Dan? Pierre's project is pretty much on the street, though hard to get. Nice to see innovation moving forward.

Maybe I missed something but I would like to share this potentially awesome option:

the-m-equipment.com/en/

Bruce

Any progress Kenji?   Dan?   Pierre's project is pretty much on the street, though hard to get.  Nice to see innovation moving forward.

My project is on hold, no progress so far.  Been too busy with photography ;D  Likely getting M-Eq bindings before finishing mine.

I tried to post earlier, but it didn't work. I ope this does.

No progress on my end either except to say I'm rather enjoying my TTS bindings... A LOT! I'm pretty sure I'm done with duckbill set ups now. Likely will be selling boots, O1 bindings, axl bindings soon.

I think the next bindings for me to buy will be some version of the TTS-- hoping to see some developments with these concepts.

bndskigear.com/adapters.html#dyna (scroll down to the bottom of this page)

www.earnyourturns.com/16021/telemark-tec...ntis-homebrewed-tts/

Or the M-equipment beauty. Which seems like the best option outside of TTS in my opinion.

Here it is!

www.earnyourturns.com/28518/first-look-m...h-new-telemark-norm/

A full review on the Meidjo