Seattle PI article

Some disturbing comments in the Seattle PI article from former SAR members. Interesting in their perception of the unacceptable risk that anyone skiing in the backcountry take.

Lee,

I'm puzzled about which Seattle PI article you're referring to. I think the one that is the subject of this thread is here:

seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/368128_snowboarders24.html

I just looked at it again and I didn't find any comments from SAR members. Were you referring to a different article?

Lee,

I'm puzzled about which Seattle PI article you're referring to. I think the one that is the subject of this thread is here:

seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/368128_snowboarders24.html

I just looked at it again and I didn't find any comments from SAR members. Were you referring to a different article?

I thought the same thing, but I think Lee's looking at the reader comments that have been added to the bottom, some of which are pretty inflammatory and/or jaded with respect to taxpayer funded SAR efforts.

there have been some pretty asinine comments on all the local media outlets (Seattle PI, Stranger). Chalk it up to internet a$$holdom......another reminder why TAY is really a stellar place!

Joe- Well said on the interview!

Just listened to the interview....

You are a strong Man Joe, thanks for representing the group.

I thought the same thing, but I think Lee's looking at the reader comments that have been added to the bottom, some of which are pretty inflammatory and/or jaded with respect to taxpayer funded SAR efforts.

Okay, got it.

I added one more comment "In memory of Ome Daiber."

Lowell - I should have been more clear. Its the readers comments I was referring to. I shrug those comments off. If you think about it; people who don't backcountry ski might think that anyone who ventures out of bounds is borderline suicidal/nuts. I exaggerate but you get the idea.

Heck even people who backcountry ski think that some of the stuff I do (just using myself as an example as its not fair to point fingers at anyone else) as nuts. So who am I to judge someone else's risk tolerance - even if i think their opinion is based on ignorance or chicken-shittedness.

The best repsonse in my opinion is to ignore " the nattering nabobs of negativity" to steal a phrase. There will always be assholes in this world and others that will choose to misunderstand what we do. That is why as a communtiy of backcountry skiers we must look after and care for oursleves and educate where we can.

Joe and I who where partly caught up in the initial media buzz where very aware of how it could offer an avenue for these seekers of controvesy, that is why I asked the inital thread to be locked so it could not be sullied with any negative postings and why Joe was very clear to the producers that if it turned negative, he was off.

Lowell-

Interesting reference to Ome Daiber....I wasn't aware of him until I googled the name, sounds like a interesting man and a apt reference.

The best repsonse in my opinion is to ignore " the nattering nabobs of negativity" to steal a phrase. There will always be assholes in this world and others that will choose to misunderstand what we do. That is why as a communtiy of backcountry skiers we must look after and care for oursleves and educate where we can.

Joe and I who where partly caught up in the initial media buzz where very aware of how it could offer an avenue for these seekers of controvesy, that is why I asked the inital thread to be locked so it could not be sullied with any negative postings and why Joe was very clear to the producers that if it turned negative, he was off.

I hadn't realized your intentions in asking for the thread lock... I approved of it then, as an "in memoriam", but I approve even more heartily now. You guys did a great job handling the (surprise) publicity.

Sidnie and I have been taking a home remodel break from skiing this spring and the angst has kept us from checking the TAY site for some time. But now, whew, what a great story. Makes me proud to ever have posted anything and count myself a part of this scene. I got a similar taste of the sense of bonding within the backcountry skiing community when my friend Randy Kraxberger was missing on Hurricane Hill this past January. Thankfully, that turned out well, but the I experienced the same
sense of community among folks I knew and ski with and strangers alike.
Well done all.

Michael

" the nattering nabobs of negativity"

Scottish tongue twisters? Oh yeah Spiro Agnew.
I can't wait to hear that in person with the Scottish accent.

I can't wait to hear that in person with the Scottish accent.

Likewise!
and speaking of voices, hats off to you, again Joe! thank you for your good work and words.

Well done all. I saw the P-I that and bought it straight off, only to realize I'd bought Scotsman's photo. ???

The whole story has been a big flag for me. I haven't followed everyone's post, but one overall impression I've had is that the general public is usually confused whenever someone takes the road less traveled. Modern industrial life has given us many sweet treats, but these things often make people alienated, materialistic and unhealthy. I feel fortunate that when I go to work or run errands I get to wear my secret smile that says, "I did something badass yesterday!". Work, family and friends are very fulfilling, but some of us get to do activities that take us amazing places, put us into contact with a variety of excellent people, and fill our lives with goals, accomplishments and lessons.

I've read that the essence of happiness in the human condition is when one has positive interdependence with others while achieving one's potential. Sounds like a fine reason to head off into the sky, and then come home. And when someone does not make it back, at least they went.

I've read that the essence of happiness in the human condition is when one has positive interdependence with others while achieving one's potential.  Sounds like a fine reason to head off into the sky, and then come home.  And when someone does not make it back, at least they went.

Agreed.

From Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi:

p. 41: Complexity and the Growth of the Self

Following a flow experience, the organization of the self is more complex than it had been before. It is by becoming increasingly complex that the self might be said to grow. Complexity is the result of two broad psychological processes: differentiation and integration. Differentiation implies a movement toward uniqueness, toward separating oneself from others. Integration refers to its opposite: a union with other people, with ideas and entities beyond the self. A complex self is one that succeeds in combining these opposite tendencies.

Putting it more simply:

"After all, mountaineering is a means to personal growth."

---John Roskelley

Here is a picture of Devlin at a messenger race I helped organize in 1999, and I must have known him for a couple years by then. I shared two amazing communities with him, Messenger and backcountry; both of them mis-understood by outsiders and too often defined by stereotype. Cheers and respect to everyone that has participated, in thought or action, to the respectful memory of our fallen brothers.

Thanks for the picture StevieD. The messenger community sounds like our backcountry community, close-knit and caring. Thanks for your comments.

This is Devlin's mother Was just wondering if any of you mind if I keep in touch with you all as one son was taken, but I have many new friends and sons in my heart. I want to keep an eye on all you are doing and enjoy it for myself and my son through you. Please let me know if this is not what you all want as I don't want to cause any problems.

Of course, we are honored to have you!

-Bill

This is Devlin's mother  Was just wondering if any of you mind if I keep in touch with you all as one son was taken, but I have many new friends and sons in my heart.  I want to keep an eye on all you are doing and enjoy it for myself and my son through you.  Please let me know if this is not what you all want as I don't want to cause any problems.

Without a doubt, loggerdogger. Welcome to the family.

...Was just wondering if any of you mind if I keep in touch with you all...

Not only are we honored to have you but we're honored that you have continued interest in the common passion we have with your son. 

Should you ever want to tagalong with any of us or further delve into any of the whys or wherefores, please do not hesitate to suggest it.  I for one, and I suspect many others, would welcome the opportunity to help you come to understand the beauty and serenity that drew your son to the mountains.

We welcome you as part of our community.

Welcome...we take care of each other here

Paul Baugher of the Crystal Mountain ski patrol e-mailed me a copy of the final report on the Union Creek Avalanche. The final report is publicly available in at least one location already:

www.nwac.us/documents/accidents/2007_200...ccident_12-02-07.pdf

I thought the following paragraph, under "Search and Recovery Comments," was noteworthy in light of the role TAY played in the search:

Due to the popular nature of the area, information of their last seen points was eventually garnered from members of online ski forums who had seen the group while touring near Bullion Basin that Saturday. In future situations, these online communities should be considered as a valuable source of information in calculating a last seen point or other valuable clue. In retrospect, had the information from these witnesses been combined with the exact hut location and potential exit routes explained by their friends, it may have narrowed the search area closer to their eventual found location. In practice it is very difficult to combine these distant sources of information during a search, but every effort should be made to do so. 

Perhaps the only “silver lining” to this tragic event was the determination and depth of effort that went into the search and recovery operation. An exhaustive effort was made in December with over 30 individuals representing law enforcement, ski patrol, mountain rescue, and others. As the snow began to melt in June, members of the ski patrol and other individuals made periodic search attempts in the area. The highlight was the remarkable effort of a group of local backcountry skiers. These selfless individuals organized themselves through a website and used good skill (and some luck) to find the camp location. The group cared for friends of the victims at the site and worked very well in coordinating with ski patrol and law enforcement to bring a swift and efficient resolution.
Thanks to everyone who participated in the search efforts in December and June. After more than 6 months the friends and family have some closure and we can finally put an end to a very unforgiving avalanche season.

Way to be TAY!