Passholder loyalty -- and vice versa.

It's nice to read an uplifting story about how to save a local ski area. <br><br>Here's some more positive news. The one major ski area on Vancouver Island has followed Snoqualmie's fine example of how to take care of your pass holders: www.mountwashington.ca/seasonspass/ .<br><br>Vancouver Island has been the hardest hit region in the Pacific Nortwest by this winter's cycle of heavy rain, drought, and minimal snow. Snowdepths there were generally 0-10% of normal at most alpine sites as of March 15. Yup, it's been much worse there than in OR, WA, or mainland SW BC.<br>

<br>But this forum really isn't the place for attacks against anyone or anything, including Stevens Pass. I have tried not to unfairly attack Stevens in my previous posts in this thread.<br>

<br><br>Isn't this forum listed under "hot air"? If ever there was a place to flame against a PNW ski area, I think this is it. I for one (a passholder, first time no less) love reading Stevens bashing posts ... in a semi-twisted way, they make me feel better. So flame on!

The point is that Harbor is a corporation interested in profits. Don't get all warm and fuzzy because you enjoy skiing. Capitalism and the creation of wealth is fine, it gave us the wealth that allows us to engage in expensive and elite hobbies such as backcountry skiing (fine, too!). I would not have as much justification to criticize Harbor if the corporation owned the land on which Stevens Pass ski area operates. Unfortunately, ski area permittees on USFS land are given wide latitude for operation. Some, such as Harbor, are more rapacious than others.<br><br>My current interest is perhaps 80% randonnee, 5% tele, 5% ski areas, 5% skating, 5% nordic touring (I ski 50 to 60 days per year). My wife (also randonnee skis etc. above) suffered the purchase of a Season Pass from Stevens Pass for the current season. For next season she will probably join my daughter and I in buying passes for Mission Ridge since my daughter now skis, and I am pretty tired of Cascade crest conditions. Mission has a different attitude as well; employees and skiers there seem to be more mellow and appreciative of the experience in my view.<br><br>I think that the Summit areas do a good job with what they are dealt in the way of topography and weather. However, I will spend little money to ski there, and that fact is probably of no concern to that corporation. Crystal usually provides a good product and development as well. Whistler does a good job with snow conditions that start out worse than Stevens. Baker is for people who like Baker.<br><br>In the past I yearned for a better ski area development by Harbor (= fat cats greatly enriched by easy money from turning on ski lifts). Now I am glad that those places are for ski touring. There are other lift ski areas in which to enjoy lift skiing. <br><br>Currently, I would wish for more access to touring (without having to crank up my snowmobile for long road approaches or hiking while packing skis) by the plowing of roads. Perhaps a germinal idea, in addition to the extortionate fees that I pay for TH Passes and Sno Park Passes, I would happily pay more to have some Forest roads plowed for access in winter. Before anyone flames me, you should know that in the day over a decade and a half past, when I just had my tele skis I would spend upwards of 40+ nights camped out for ski touring per year some years. Now that I have a family, I enjoy more day touring so that I can get home in the evening. One of the cool things about Europe is the ready access to high elevation ski touring by lift and road.<br><br>In regard those who would defend Harbor or attack my criticism, I would have to ask 'what is their interest?' There is a LOT of quid pro quo in the business. I have no tie or obligation to any ski area or organization. Many of the the permanent year-around employees (have told me) at Stevens who make it go are getting laid off this week. Ask them about how nervous the corporation is because of overleveraging and dependence on the easy obscene profits from Stevens Pass ski area. <br><br>My current interest is in getting some more days soon on my randonnee gear. Yippee for new snow!

<br>Isn't this forum listed under "hot air"? If ever there was a place to flame against a PNW ski area, I think this is it. I for one (a passholder, first time no less) love reading  Stevens bashing posts ... in a semi-twisted way, they make me feel better. So flame on!

<br><br>Jerm, one of the nicest things about TAY is an absence of flame wars and other vitriol, with a very high ratio of meaningful content instead. You're fairly new here, please try to respect the current de facto standards. There are plenty of other skiing/climbing forums devoted primarily to flame wars and other nonsense (or so it seems).<br><br>

In regard those who would defend Harbor or attack my criticism, I would have to ask 'what is their interest?' There is a LOT of quid pro quo in the business. I have no tie or obligation to any ski area or organization.

<br><br>I attacked your criticism because of its angry tone, some obviously erroneous statements (regardless of your source), and because you chose to post anonymously. If you really want your views and opinions to be respected, have the courage to sign your name to them. <br><br>By the way, I have no connection to Stevens or Harbor, either as pass holder or stockholder.<br>

Thanks for helping set the tone, Amar, and for standing behind your comments with your name. <br><br>I guess I haven't learned anything specific about Stevens management that helps me make a call either way about their motivation or basic goodness. All I see is a classic ad hominem attack. I've worked in corporations, and know they're made up of people, and some people are good and some are bad. Some go way beyond quest for profits to invest in their communities, and are supported in this by their boards of directors and stockholders. Body Shop and Ben & Jerry's are a few commonly noted positive examples, but there are others. I read about "obscene profits," but have no idea what the bar for "obscene" is, nor do I even see any evidence in this thread that Stevens even runs a profit. I read that they haven't maintained much beyond the food concessions, though I notice high speed lifts and quads which were not there in the early days. Is grooming good, is grooming bad - that is a debate skiers have with no clear outcome. Should they have expanded when they supposedly had the chance, should they not? Again, many angles to that debate.<br><br>I question Stevens' call on their pass program and bet it will bite them, but I can imagine many reasons that may have led to their decision. I haven't skied there much and so have no take on them - I'm willing to believe they may be great folks or evil pond scum. I've learned little to nothing in this threat to help me make that judgment.<br><br>I have no affiliation with any ski area other than my sometimes purchase of Snoqualmie seasons passes.

I guess Crystal isn't so generous towards Midweek skiers. ??? But I'll take what I can get.<br><br>OK.. here's what Crystal Mt. is offering:<br><br>for current season pass holders:<br><br>* RenewAdult Midweek 395.00 ( ...a 12% discount...)<br>* RenewAdult Full Season 672.00 ( ...a 20% discount...)<br>* Renew Youth Season Pass 580.00 <br>* Child Season Pass 50.00 <br>

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<br>Here are the new regular rates:<br><br>2005-2006 SEASON PASSES PRESEASON RATES VALID <br>UNTIL 9/15/05 <br><br>UNLIMITED PASS Ages 18-69 $840 Buy Online <br><br>YOUTH PASS Ages 11-17 $725 Buy Online <br><br>MIDWEEK PASS Valid Mon-Fri, including midweek holidays at Crystal Mountain ONLY.<br>Fri Night Skiing when available. $449 Buy Online <br><br>SENIOR PASS Ages 70 and over $150 Buy Online <br><br>CHILD PASS Ages 10 and under $50 Buy Online <br>

Mt Hood Skibowl's offer came out last week.  <br><br>They're offering an unlimited 05/06 season pass to current season pass holders for $199.  By comparison, this year's unlimited pass was $390.  <br><br>To my mind, that's a pretty fair deal.  Color me in!<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>     <br><br>

Wow, I am suprised at all the complaints seen on these forums about Stevens being stingy, it is shocking to see the prices at Crystal.<br><br>Did Crystal ever offer end of the year sales for the next year? Even with the 20% (weather) discount, the anytime ticket is over $200 more than the Stevens pass lift pass.<br><br>Alan

When I was skiing at Crystal last week... I was thinking, "This is too much fun.. now Crystal won't give us much of a break! " Of course lift ticket purchasers only had to pay $35.00 and they closed the lifts at 3:00 pm<br><br>I am sure the Crystal mgt. guys are smiling for that good snow we had last week... let them off the hook. So they throw us a small bone. 12% break on a mid week pass. <br><br>Well, they did build a new lodge. I guess I can't complain too much. But I think my name should go on a paver somewhere. The season pass buyers saved Crystal's financial rear ends this year. <br>

<br>Quote from Stevens Pass Letter to Pass Holders:<br>However, the probability of next season being below normal is about 50% (roughly half the seasons must be below normal, right?). Unfortunately, it's really even more than that, since about 55-60% of seasons fall below the average (mean) in the type of probability distribution that snowfall stats have. In other words, the median value is less than the average, which is skewed upward by the occasional huge snow years.<br><br>Sorry for talking about math and stuff.<br>

<br><br>I always have liked the analysis of snow data on your site, Amar.  I do have to ask, though.  Have you ever looked an autocorrelation plot of the snow data?  I haven't lived around here long but over the last couple winters it seems like a good one has been followed by a bad one.  Here is what I remember from the last few years at SkiBowl.<br><br>2005 - Closed most of the year<br>2004 - Great year, lots of snow late December/January<br>2003 - Not so good, closed for a while in January.  Like this year there was some new snow late in the season.<br>2002 - Very good year. Lots of snow through March<br>2001 - A little fuzzy but I think this was a decent year<br>2000 - We didn't live here then but this was a record (or near record) year from what I have heard.<br><br>We usually get passes at SkiBowl and while this year didn't work out, I was glad to hear about next year's offer.